Event:2023/09/21 Delegates

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Omni Delegates' Meeting - 21 September 2023 7pm-9pm

Meeting Details

Roles

  • Facilitator/s: yar
  • Stacktaker:
  • Timekeeper:
  • Notetaker/s: Yar, Patrik
  • Next meeting's facilitator(s):

Delegates

  • inactive groups: ANV GWS MOP SM
  • BOGSS: Danielle
  • CCL: Patrik. Theresa, guest from CCL
  • CLP: Silvia
  • FNB: Joe (Helen)
  • LL: John
  • SR: jake
  • SM (inactive): juul
  • Quorum (2/3 of active groups): 4 not counting LL

intros

BRIEF INTROS MAY INCLUDE: name, pronouns, groups you're in, land you're on, if you're a delegate, unmet access needs, meeting roles you'd like to help with, discussion topics or proposals to add to agenda, announcements/updates/report-backs from your groups, safe space issues or updates

  • yar: boilerplate stuff
  • patrik (he/him): delegate for CCL, proposal to clarify BOGSS rules, want to get omni business out of the way first, ie. spending money to fix roof before rains start, passing resolution in support of women in Iran
  • Joe : glad i can do this, also running a rent board meeting but will try to stay attuned. I've given Helen power to vote or text me, look forward to cooperative, kind, civil meeting tonight
  • Jake (any): delegate for sudoroom, we had a meeting last night. Planning to install a roof drain over sudoroom very soon
  • ed: sudo. hoping to get more involved again
  • helen: joe's the delegate. i'm here to fill in if he has to leave.
  • geraldo he/they bogss.
  • danielle: bogss delegate for today and moving forward. looking forward to a nice meeting.
  • silvia: CLP delegate
  • gerald: not a delegate. here to observe and recommend independently of people. i work with FNB, show up once a week for my assignment.
  • daniel/danny: he/him TANC.
  • hamsa: he/him TANC. here if anyone has any questions.
  • rafiq: they/them CLP. safe space issue touched on in the agenda.
  • john: LL. fundraising report.
  • natalie they/them. part of sketchboard figure drawing. not a delegate but working on it, will be using the space next year for art events.
  • voulette: she/her PYM
  • aisha she/her PYM
  • leen she/her PYM
  • salma they/them PYM
  • paige they/them sudoroom & buiding wg
  • marc and/or juul: sudomesh delegate, sudo, CCL
  • aidan (they/them): Food Not Bombs volunteer. Asked to be here as an advocate. Currently in CERT Training. Please request chat response if need be.
  • silver: media lab, FNB, fundraising outreach & marketing
  • sarah any pronouns
  • tia she/they pronouns
  • vian they/them. starting to do screen printing with media lab in basement
  • theresa: she/her CCL here to listen
  • eric sudoroom here to listen as well

Example Discussion/Proposal

Patching Omni's roof before the rains come

  • patrik: Philip Bell got quotes from Standard & Kings (bonded genral contractor, CA. Gen B Lic# 1000370)
    • reduced price for getting the skylights done 3 at a time would be $11,000 total
    • $2454 for sudo room (and CCL?) roof repair
    • $4K installing extra drain in corner above Sudo. Jake from Sudo had already offered for Sudo to do some of this work
  • jake: i'm planning to put a drain over sudo. i have the parts, will start soon. no objections but please hold off on work until i'm done.
  • AMENDED PROPOSAL: do the skylights & patching, but not the drain repair. tentatively pass provisional on finance approving it, if we do have the money.
  • CONSENSUS: YES (jake/sudo danielle/bogss helen/fnb john/LL sylvia/CLP patrik/CCL); ABSTAIN (NONE); PASSED

fundraising report back

  • john: committee's been meeting. JP silver susan me carlos. getting out round of grants by october. draft individual donor letter going out to collectives.
  • best way to get engaged? let john known

mural

  • Proposal to add a mural depicting the earth's epoch's on the wall or sidewalk. The mural is intended to highlight the current species extinction event we are experiencing on earth. Proposal being made by CCL and Theresa Halula. Proposal to be sent to consensus@lists.omnicommons.org during the next week for consideration.
  • tabled for next time
  • helen: i'd like to see a specific proposal. delegates can't decide on artistic decisions like where it should go.
  • marc: maybe check with dept of historical buildings before next time.

Solidarity with Woman Life Freedom

  • Jake: Today a huge march in San Francisco in support of the struggle for womens rights in Iran and around the world. Can we pass a resolution in solidarity with this movement?
  • helen: concerned it targets iran, which is also a target of our country's imperialist designs. i would hate to see us align ourselves with that particular state of mind. but it's not a blocking concern.
  • jake: i don't think it would be fair to use the word iran to encompass everyone there. .... opposition to morality police. as far as the people of iran, some of them do believe in a religious theocracy but i believe a lot more people would be more supported by solidarity with this statement than not.
  • danielle: i understand helen's slight concerns as well. looks like aisha from PYM also appreciates helen bringing that up. personally idk too much about what's going on, so with what helen's saying, i feel like i don't have enough info to know exactly what that is.
  • john: also feel like we don't have enough info. skeptical of supporting something the US state & mainstream media has been promoting as heavily as they have without that further info.
  • tabled for later

President of Omni Role Change

  • yar: nomin-ated Paige Planter
  • jake: seconded
  • Joe L: i met them and would support them
  • john LL: would appreciate statement from them
  • paige: my understanding it's just a figurehead role. long overdue for election. not a delegate. less power is good. not excited to do the role if anyone else is more trusted and wants to step ...
  • danielle: paige explained my concern about why. would like to meet them.
  • rafiq: i have written evidence from sudoroom members that jake's been engaging on a very targeted attack on me based on my national org. anonymous emails being sent. we shouldn't sweep this under the rug. jake's doing something that made omni unsafe for me, because of my national origin.
  • patrik: disagrees this should be just a figurehead role.
  • CONSENSUS: YES (jake/sudo joe/fnb); ABSTAIN (); NONE
  • never mind. it's too long a convo. let's table it.

Discussion of Mike Sierra Email and Decision on Suspension/Investigation

  • yar proposes to table it - there was no email discussion
  • danielle: maybe a separate meeting? important content to talk about eventually
  • patrik: let's table it for this meeting. doesn't seem the right venue.

PYM and Discussion on Anti-Zionism at Omni

  • PYM has agreed to be here today so that we can discuss with them recent questions/discussions around Zionism
  • aisha: i'm here to talk to you about being an anti-zionist org with principles. not sure why we're here. we've always considered omni to be a safe space. we have our meetings there, we're connected. there was convo about our boycott of DSA. on our agenda it's framed as PYM, but this is not a PYM issue. it's a boycott of DSA by 24 major palestinian orgs. that's including every single political palestinian org based in bay area [lists orgs]. they all boycott DSA - it's clear & public. david talked to salma about it. it's not just because DSA has a liberal position on palestine. it's because after DSA [...] and crossed their own picket line to endorse bowman, we called out national DSA on their hypocrisy. they were harassed, silenced, removed from leadership, wg disbanded, social media attacked. so much anti-palestinian racist bullcrap. that's the reason for the DSA boycott. i know this convo's about TANC. to be clear, our boycott is not of TANC, only DSA. there was some concern of a TANC-DSA relationship. EBDSA just voted to disband BDS wg. we're not supporting this block. that's not our boycott, but we are seeing there's issues of liberal zionism. that should be brought up. i heard there's been questions about why CLP used palestine as the reason to block - saying they weaponized us. that's an anti-palestinian opinion. this is a clear boycott. i hear that. you all need to think about those issues. i appreciate that palestine is a red line for people.
    • silver: thanks for sharing. a lot of us don't have those relationships. i hear you're saying this isn't a PYM movement, it's for all people in solidarity with palestine. silvia and i talked about this. i felt confused because they're also part of events wg. they have GAs here, we actively rent space to them. if you're in solidarity with the ban, how come it wasn't brought up before? i do newsletter for omni. put snippets of PYM's letter in it. support what you all do here
    • silvia: i was in events wg but pulled out last december. the boycott was released in july. only did research then. i'd say now we shouldn't rent to them. our concern was DSA & TANC seemed to be related. 6 of 7 TANC people that came last meeting were DSA members. daniel is high up in EBDSA.
    • helen: i'd like to hear PYM people say a little more about how they feel about TANC
    • yar: just learning about the EBDSA vote on BDS. if that's true then let's not rent to them and tell them why, until they change that.
    • silver: i think it wasn't about being anti-palestine. it was about CLP not having integrity
    • gerald: jamal bowman voted for the iron dome. i fought in DSA to expel him. EBDSA voted to expel bowman. but only 25% of locals were for it, so it didn't happen. there's some details to talk later. 700 of the TANC people are not in the DSA. it's a union. the leadership doesn't represent the whole org.
    • aisha: i really appreciate you all having us and hearing what we had to say. our boycott still stands. happy to talk specifics.
  • yar clarifies and aisha answers: the boycott includes EBDSA as well
  • aisha: this is a way for DSA to bypass our boycott and get in the space
  • rafiq: if TANC joins omni, how would that impact PYM's relationship with omni? would you feel ok holding events here?
  • aisha: given this convo it'll be contentions. it'll depend if DSAers are in leadership positions
  • patrik: i'm confused about the EBDSA-BDS issue. march 22 page says they supported BDS. https://www.eastbaydsa.org/events/2132/2022-03-20-palestine-and-bds-101/
    • "The East Bay chapter passed a resolution in support of DSA BDS & Palestine Solidarity Working Group’s statement to expel Bowman"
  • daniel: i'm not totally aware of all this. i'm gonna look into it. me & everyone i talked to in TANC and DSA have been pro-palestine and supportive of BDS. i have close comrades on the BDS wg.
  • Aisha: if DSA people take leadership roles at Omni then PYM will have to reevaluate
  • Yar: TANC people, are you able to supply omni with a delegate who is not a member of DSA?
  • Hamsa: yes we can do that
  • Aisha: yes that would help
  • Jake: thanks PYM for wading into this and coming into this meeting
  • Patrik (chat): Does anyone have a link to the vote on BDS? Still don't really understand what is going on here, and would like to educate myself. No need to spend more time on this in delegates mtg though

PROPOSAL: Clarify BOGSS operating rules

Rules of BOGSS: https://omnicommons.org/wiki/BOGSS

Additions are highlighted in bold below:

1. Committee Makeup: There shall be 5 members of BOGSS selected from Omni collectives and at large or working group volunteers/organizers, including no more than 2 committee members from each collective, working group, or "renters" (organizations that rent space but are not collective members). All members must be selected per the election process below. The BOGSS committee shall be considered inactive when it has less than 5 members, or more than 2 members from any one collective, working group, or renters. When inactive, the BOGSS committee shall only have an advisory role rather than the Powers described below.

2a. The congress shall have the following caps to prevent a single organization from overwhelming the membership: 5 maximum members per Omni collective 5 maximum members from at large Omni volunteers from the various working groups 2 maximum members per Omni "renters" (Orgs that rent space but are not collective members) No more than 1/3 of members from any one collective, working group, or renters

2b. Nomination and Election Process: From this first round, the top 10 nominees, including no more than the top 3 from each collective, working group, or renters, will be chosen to advance to the second round of elections. During the second round, each Congress member may submit 2 votes for BOGSS. These votes must go to 2 different nominees. These votes shall also be submitted through a role call process. At the conclusion of this second round, the top 5 vote getters, including no more than the top 2 from each collective, working group, or renters, shall be selected to BOGSS for the next term. 3a. BOGSS Powers: When the BOGSS committee is not inactive, BOGGS shall have the power to...

discussion

  • patrik: bogss only has 3 members. rules spelled out on the wiki (https://omnicommons.org/wiki/BOGSS) say it needs 5 members, elections every 6 months, meeting records. explicit language about not being dominated by one collective. none of these hold true atm. i'd like to clarify with friendly amendment to add more detail and bring in line with original intent. also i urge groups to send bogss reps! can't do job unless it's full of people.
  • patrik (alternate version of what he said): theres been discomfort with how BOGSS is operating, only 3 members, the rules say 5 members, supposed to be elections every 6 months, should meet at least once per month, records available to delegates, specific language that it shouldn't be dominated by any one particular collective, and none of those are true at the moment. Friendly amendment to bogss rules to clarify this more and add more detail to bring it more in line with original intent: include that out of the 5 members, no more than 2 members from each collective, renter, or ...and if below 5 members or more than 2 from one collective, still have advisory role but not powers listed ...additional language in the selection process to limit number of committee members from each collective. I hope this will be considered in-line with whats already in the language of the rules "preventing a specific collective from dominating..."
  • yar's summaries
    • no more than 2 per group
    • no quorum (5 members) no powers
  • danielle: agreed bogss doesn't represent omni well. geraldo has stepped down. i'm also [...?]. we should have an immediate election rather than wait, get the ball rolling. groups send congress members, we vote in person. last we did was not many people.
  • silver: i think what bogss is supposed to do is important. omni's been mostly white since i got here 2018. bogss is important. geraldo was always my point person. i'm feeling frustrated that things meant to be private discussion, were used to spread to consensus, saying i'm manipulative towards white people. not a lot of POC in this group. concerned geraldo abused their delegacy. i've been trying to reach out & support. i'm in the building all the time - very different space than delegates meeting. painful and messed up what's been happening. frustrated with what's going on. this abuse of power, my concern is all CLP is part of BOGSS. i tried to build a relationship. because it's only one collective CLP. it's not fair or ok to break confidence. why would anybody reach out if that's what they do.
  • rafiq: i first proposed & set up congress. many announcements. congress was 9 total. 2 CCL members, 1 moved out of town, another dropped out. it was started because of harassment from jake. for jake to make these accusations is appalling. being part of bogss isn't just about identity, but your dedication to those issues, and your political actions. one of my personal big concerns with silver joining bogss, is they went on birthright, has pictures of israel, and has used this as a cudgel. dk admitted to living there. i'd love to hear from PYM on this issue, if they knew this about omni. elections should be held, bipoc rep is important. but a lot of white people are using bogss to attack clp. not once has bogss used clp to go after anyone in particular despite that we should have, due to jake's behavior. it's racist to accuse CLP of using BOGSS like that.
  • helen: we should restrict this discussion to patrik's proposal. people who wish to speak should speak about the proposal.
  • yar: do you have concerns with the specific amendments?
    • rafiq: i'm concerned this will be used to flood bogss with white people
    • yar: how? it's still majority bipoc
    • rafiq: if that's being retained then ok but i don't even feel safe now because it's being proposed by white people who harassed me etc
  • danielle: having an immediate election would ease peoples' concerns. in regard to the updates, sorry. this is giving me anxiety. focus on keeping it representative re: racial diversity. the times i heard about issues coming to bogss, it's usually racial issues. having that perspective in particular will be important. also issues re: gender too though.
  • joe: seems clear bogss wasn't constituted to fulfill the criteria they were created in, so we have to address that. very intolerable to have two orgs all CLP members. so let's correct that, according to the way it was intended, and we'll be able to deal with other things.
  • helen: i think bogss could be a very valuable thing to have. rafiq's concerned patrik's changes would weaken it as an advocate. i think rafiq's mistaken - the changes would strengthen it. as constituted, people have an excuse to ignore it. it's not representative of oppressed people in omni. a more representative group would have more clout.
  • patrik restates proposal as asked
  • aidan: not in the interest of hearing collective voices. no one entirely represents the diaspora of who they are. the more people you have the more things are expressed. only reason i didn't join is i don't think FNB is racially diverse or, in current incarnation, committed to that. i didn't want to be a token for that specific reason. people should be thinking if you odn't have any black or indigenous friends then you have issues in your collective. there should be mandatory representation (?) but i don't think restrictions are good in that regard. oakland has a lot to deal with displacement. people have right to return, especially ohlone & black people. bogss is important, but what are the teeth & repurcussions? i'd say poc are a minority in omni, i see it every time i go in there. to think about limiting poc from joining a committee seems counter intuitive to me.
  • rafiq: patrik, i'd drop my objection ot this proposal on two points. 1) we shouldn't defang bogss even if people drop off. new congress happening. but creating a scenario where white-dominated groups can fill bogss and then pull out to defang it, that's bad. bipoc should have the ability to [...] and not put on the same level as a group that struggles with diversity
  • jake: when bogss was proposed i advocated strongly for it, even though i had a conflict with rafiq. i suspended my suspicion of rafiq even though it turned out to be justified. when people told me it wa pops copied & pasted from maoist struggle sessions and authoritarian bullshit, i told people they were wrong and to back off. Some quit Omni and called me gullible. then i tried to get people to join. rafiq is saying i'm lying in chat. we have a conflict they started in 2022. we'll have to talk about at the next meeting. so we passed bogss, then i went and tried to talk to poc and women encouraging them to join. they all said no thanks not getting anywhere near that not interested. that explains why a structure created by leader of CLP as a naked sock puppet for CLP's votes and writtne in maoist struggle session tradition has nobody in it but CLP members even though others have been trying to join. wanna call out, rafiq is determined to prevent TANC from joining omni. we've heard shifting reasons for why. i think the fact bogss was created to give rafiq a second vote in delegates meeting explains why rafiq is pushing back on resisting these really obvious common sense changes. we should take this to a vote. looking at the bylaws, we are allowed to make changes like this with majority action, section 14. we have a tradition of seeking consensus, but these are difficult times that i'd attribute to bad faith by an authoritarian group that expressly stated they want to take over omni
  • patrik: to clarify, bogss rules already say 4 of 5 need to be bipoc. that hasn't changed.
  • silvia: i remember jake being anti-bogss. imma had to convince him otherwise, and so did other people at omni, such as micha, marquise, yar.
  • danielle: i feel disheartened how people are talking about bogss. important to improve things, they're not always perfect off the bad. sorry jake but i think the way you're talking about CLP and rafiq in particular
    • jake interrupts: are you a CLP member?
    • danielle: people are really combative, it's hard to want to advocate for people in a space like this when people are so combative with one another, it's ridiculous. like i said going into this conversation, i think we need to have an election to ease peoples' concerns. i don't want people to think BOGSS is a puppet for CLP, that's not the case. jake, you talk about CLP's website - i know it's not what patrik put on the agenda, it has nothing to do with that, but i'm involved with CLP's website. we talk about revitalizing the space - we might talk about revolution, but because we want a space representative of the people in oakland. in reality it's not right now. we need to think of ways to improve the space to do that. i know we all want that. i'm sorry i'm getting emotional, but let's try to figure that out.
  • rafiq: jake keeps accusing me of CLP leadership. i don't think about him. he's not part of my life. but he sent ...
    • jake: THAT'S A LIE
    • rafiq: stop interrupting brown people. it's islamophobic to call me the leader of CLP. i'm glad PYM a muslim majority org to view how hostile an environment because of jake. omni's failed to act on this situation.
  • yar: pay attention to the most marginalized in these conversations and don't derail their voices. we need to stay in touch. these connections are the most valuable thing omni has. meanwhile, i think that if it weren't for the idea that bogss will block TANC moving in on behalf of CLP, there would be more willingness to...
  • Salma: As non-Omni member, to witness the “president” of Omni, voted in by delegates (?) actively attacking BIPOC and non-cis people is absolutely a reflection on Omni. Reflect on this please
  • aidan: [sorry i didn't get this]when i hear personal attacks, someones name, i tune out
  • jake: sorry for the personal attacks. i don't feel i started them but i won't stand idly by while i'm being personally attacked. i feel strongly, i'm personally involved. i care about omni, and the spirit of bogss. i feel strongly about palestine. i want to focus on this item patrik put in that i think should be uncontroversial. specific things in wording of bogss i don't think there's reason to push back unless it's someone trying to use bogss in bad faith. I would like a vote, according to section 14 of our bylaws https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Bylaws#SECTION_14._MAJORITY_ACTION_AS_BOARD_ACTION
  • rafiq: i'd like some clarification on how we make decisions. this isn't the first time Jake has brought up secret obscure rules..
    • jake interrupts: take my name out of your mouth and read the bylaws yourself
    • yar chastises jake for interrupting, jake advises yar to stop rafiq attacking him
  • danielle: will bogss still be majority non white?
    • patrik: yes. all other rules will stay in place including the rule that 4/5 BOGSS committee members have to be BIPOC.
  • danielle: i understand the concerns about quorum. maybe we should say if there's less than x amount of people, there will be an immediate election to add new people? something like that would be important.
    • patrik: we could say at least 3 members, no more than 40% from one collective.
  • yar: bogss congress should be continuously in touch. place for new BIPOC omni members to land. source of legitimacy when people drop out. also comittee should be paid!
  • jake announces resignation effective in 1 month or upon being replaced
  • danielle: my concern is this would make bogss inactive. i get why. i think i'd abstain. we need to have an immediate election.
  • Patrik: Suggested alternate wording:
    • 1. Committee Makeup: There shall be 5 members of BOGSS selected from Omni collectives and at large or working group volunteers/organizers, including no more than 40% committee members from each collective, working group, or "renters" (organizations that rent space but are not collective members). All members must be selected per the election process below. The BOGSS committee shall be considered inactive when it has less than 4 members, or more than 40% members from any one collective, working group, or renters. When inactive, the BOGSS committee shall only have an advisory role rather than the Powers described below.
    • this version will make it less likely for BOGSS to become inactive if someone drops out.
  • CONSENSUS: YES (patrik/ccl sudo/jake joe/fnb); ABSTAIN (john/LL danielle/bogss); BLOCK (silvia/CLP)
  • silvia wants to postpone and give it the proper 2 weeks we've been doing this entire time
  • danielle: if this is going to be blocked, i propose a bogss election before the next delegate meeting so a new bogss can vote properly on patrik's proposal.
  • andrew: can i please step in for you and represent sudoroom so you can step out of the meeting?
    • jake: no
    • andrew: i tried. i offer to sylvia a friendly amendment. what if we amend this to say it only applies for 1 month? that way we can resolve TANC meanwhile. would that remove the block? that way bogss couldn't block tanc but the conditions wouldn't be permanent.
    • silver: our main issues with TANC were BIPOC issues from the beginning. by silencing BOGSS on that right before the vote is in bad faith. our reps vote autonomously from CLP. i'm not in bogss chats. there are private slack chats i've heard of. i don't vote in those. CLP doesn't even talk in those in our meetings. i think it's a bad decision to fully resolve bogss right now and then bring it back in time for the next meeting. i'm more in line with danielle about having a congress asap.
    • jake: this issue has 3 points: 1. bogss is presently inactive according to the present rules listed above, so should not be voting in this issue. 2. this is about power, specifically giving CLP a second vote on TANC so they can block. 3. even if BOGSS was active, CLP members would need to recuse themselves from such a decision
  • rafiq: as a show of good faith, we want omni to move forward and not jeapordize leadership.
  • hamsa: thank everybody here for being here so long and giving us space. seeing this meeting, i have immense amount of respect for omni. i don't want TANC to cause any rift or problems with omni. me and dani would be fine taking a step back from here on out. i don't think TANC coming in at this time would be very healthy for omni in my opinion

Conflict Resolution/Discussion and Potential Compromise over TANC Block

Rafiq: I would be willing to allow TANC to move in as a tenant but not a member collective Yar: is that a block? Rafiq: i'm not delegate so I wouldn't know Hamsa (TANC): we think we should take a step back. I don't think TANC joining at this time would be healthy for Omni. As a tenant or a member collective. We don't want to "come in hot" Yar: we are worried that we will lose you, you might start looking for other spaces Hamsa (TANC): yes that is possible. But if you decided to let us in then that might work

straw poll

  • if the vote happened now, how would delegates vote on TANC?
  • TANC (Hamsa): We are pulling out of this process, we don't think this is the best time [hamsa is alleged to have said this, but i don't remember them saying this --yar]
  • CONSENSUS: YES (ll/john sudo/jake ccl/patrik joe/fnb); ABSTAIN (danielle/bogss); BLOCK (silvia/CLP)
  • marc: sudomesh hasn't met in a while. still no refi solution for january 1. omni needs a new loan. it's close, critical. not welcoming in new paying collectives at this point is a luxury we don't have. we should get more people who'd come and pay. we can't be too picky rn.
  • john: we have david, 2 more hands, joe, patrik. we're at 9:46. yar's question about how to resolve this now, given various discussions.
  • david keenan: when bylaws were created, that one line of consensus minus one was discussed at length. it was meant to address circumstances like this, with an extended block or indefinite/intractable situation impeding consensus process. it was intended to function as an escape valve to allow the process to move forward. it's there for these kinds of situation. what people decide to do about it is different.
  • john: given that understanding of the rationale for consensus minus one ...
  • joe: it's a perfect situation for the consensus minus one, and it's hard to imagine silvia's block will be changed. everything CLP has said, i honor wanting to keep the community respecting each other, but everything CLP said points directly and invariably that the block will stay. i'm in favor of CMO and having them in tonight.
  • john: LL same as joe FNB
  • patrik: direct question for silvia since you mentioned not having time to consult with CLP. it has been 2 weeks since the last delegate meeting. i know you folks have been talking to PYM folks also. by when do you think you'll have an answer on behalf of CLP?
  • silvia: we provided alternatives to unblock since the first meeting. none of them have really happened. you're wanting me to unblock? how long it would take for us to unblock?
    • patrik: you mentioned you haven't had time to talk to your folks. by when do you think you'd have done that?
  • CONSENSUS: YES (LL/john sudo/jake ccl/patrik[uncomfortably] joe/fnb); ABSTAIN (danielle/bogss); BLOCK (silvia/CLP)
  • patrik: CCL is uncomfortable with consensus minus one, but if we have to, we'll vote in favor
  • joe: the thing was an honest attempt to be anti racist and pro palestinian
    • helen: with some concern
  • yar: my understanding is that TANC agreed to send a non-DSA delegate, and that would downgrade PYM's concerns from "very concerned" to "skeptical but we'll see". that's good enough for me.
  • danielle: considering what PYM folks said, i don't think it makes sense (BLOCK)
  • should we require TANC to have a non-dsa delegate?
    • CONSENSUS: YES (LL/john FNB/helen CCL/patrik sudo/yar silvia/CLP); ABSTAIN(): BLOCK ()
  • silvia: yes, but on the understanding they won't be unduly influence
  • danielle: i feel the need to block based on PYM's comments
  • do you consider this vote to have passed, given that bogss is not in full session now?
    • CONSENSUS: YES (joe/FNB john/LL patrik/CCL sudo/yar+andrew); ABSTAIN(): BLOCK (silvia/CLP, Danielle/BOGGS)
  • according to one perspective, the Above measures did not pass.
  • according to another perspective, it did.

Bylaws Amendment re Member Collectives (not voted on)

  • Proposed Amendments to this Section in bold – 9/19/23 (includes amendments to reflect decisions made in prior meetings that were not officially included in the Bylaws)

SECTION 4. TERMS OF OFFICE AND DESIGNATION OF DIRECTORS

  • (a) Each director shall hold office until the next annual meeting for designation of the Board of Directors as specified in these Bylaws, and until his or her or their successor is designated and qualifies.
  • DELETE: (b) At each annual meeting, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by the Bay Area Public School Committee, a Committee established by a resolution of the Board of the Corporation.
  • (c) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Sudo Room, a Committee established by a resolution of the Board of the Corporation.
  • (d) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Liberated Lens Collective, a Committee established by a resolution of the Board of the Corporation.
  • DELETE: (e) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by the Timeless Infinite Light Committee, a California public benefit organization.
  • (f) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Global Women’s Strike - Omni Collective, a Committee established by a resolution of the Board of the Corporation.
  • (g) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Counter Culture Labs, a California public benefit corporation.
  • (h) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by East Bay Food Justice Project, a California public benefit corporation.
  • (i) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Chiapas Support Committee, a California public benefit corporation.
  • DELETE: (j) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Global Communication Services, a California public benefit corporation.
  • DELETE: (k) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Art Bison Design Coop, a Committee established by a resolution of the Board of the Corporation
  • (l) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Acta Non Verba, a California public benefit corporation
  • (m) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Sudo Mesh, a California public benefit corporation.
  • ADD: (n) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Myriad Outreach Project, a California public benefit corporation.
  • ADD: (o) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Community Liberation Programs, a California public benefit corporation.
  • ADD: (p) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by BOGSS, a Committee established by a resolution of the Board of the Corporation.
  • ADD: (q) At each annual meeting of the Board, one (1) director shall be designated pursuant to Corporations Code Section 5220 by Tenant and Neighborhood Councils, a California public benefit corporation.

Review of Financial Situation and Upcoming Deadlines: Sarah

postpone until another meeting. Sarah is sick

chat logs copied from Google Meet session

  • 06:52PM Yar notes at https://pad.riseup.net/p/omninom [and repeated]
  • 07:05PM Theresa Halula Patrick/CCL is stuck in traffic, and is on the way. Theresa Is from CCL
  • 07:05PM Yar welcome, still waiting for more people. notes at https://pad.riseup.net/p/omninom [and repeated]
  • 07:14PM Yar BRIEF INTROS MAY INCLUDE: name, pronouns, groups you're in, land you're on, if you're a delegate, unmet access needs, meeting rolesyou'd like to help with, discussion topics or proposals to add to agenda, announcements/updates/report-backs from your groups, safespace issues or updates
  • notes at https://pad.riseup.net/p/omninom
  • 07:15PM Patrik D'haeseleer Sorry all - got stuck in traffic
  • 07:25PM Danielle (BOGSS) Can't hear you John
  • 07:28PM Aidan Hill Aidan Hill (they/them): Food Not Bombs volunteer. Asked to be here as an advocate. Currently in CERT Training. Please request chat responseif need be.
  • 07:40PM Danielle (BOGSS) Yay ! (:
  • 07:40PM Harold R I can take stack
  • 07:43PM John Hayakawa Torok maydayjt@riseup.com
  • 07:43PM Theresa Halula theresa_halula@yahoo.com fundraising request information
  • 07:44PM Harold R cool idea, would love to see a sketch of it
  • 07:45PM Silvia S yeah that seems like a good idea Theresa!
  • 07:45PM Danielle (BOGSS) I love a good mural, thanks for the suggestion Theresa!
  • 07:47PM Aisha Mansour I appreciate you saying that Helen. Imperial feminist logic has been used as justification to invade our homelands for decades now.
  • Its important to recognize your positionality here in the UnitedStates when you discuss these things.
  • 07:49PM Gerald Smith Does anyone know the organizers of the upcoming Anarchist Bookfair?
  • 07:50PM John Hayakawa Torok Gerald, no sorry.
  • 07:51PM Danielle (BOGSS) I would like to hear at least some information about this as to what the reasons are, and an introduction to Paige as well.
  • 07:52PM Rafiq this is directly related to my safe space concern
  • 07:52PM Patrik D'haeseleer seems to early to vote on this today - would love to hear more about paige
  • 07:53PM Jacqi Galea I'd also like to add that we officer changes all around, for example I'm still Secretary on paper which I believe is long overdue and Iwould love to step aside and pass it on
  • 07:53PM Jake Watters Paige is a longtime sudoroom member who has the trust of all those who know them and it's an easy role
  • 07:53PM Patrik D'haeseleer I happen to disagree that this should be just a figurehead role
  • 07:53PM Natalie G. i would like to hear what the roles are and whats expected?
  • 07:55PM Jake Watters A name on a piece of paper with the state. There is a requirement for us to have a president but there is no power allocated to that role in our bylaws
  • 07:56PM Danielle (BOGSS) It would be great to have time to get to meet Paige in-person, or anyone else who would be interested in becoming the president.
  • 07:57PM Rafiq also jake has repeatedly misgendered me
  • 07:57PM Paige P I am happy to meet in person sometime, at Omni often
  • 07:57PM Philip Bell @yar Other items topic specifically?or in general?
  • 07:59PM joe iPlease go to the Tanc issue
  • 07:59PM Silvia S yeah separate meeting would be fine
  • 07:59PM Jacqi Galea It would be nice to make sure Mike could be present as well
  • 08:00PM John Hayakawa Torok Separate meeting sounds good time/date tbd.
  • 08:00PM Danielle (BOGSS) Sounds good to me.
  • 08:01PM Aidan Hill For accessibility, could someone please summarize each discussion at the end ?
  • 08:05PM Theresa Halula BDS working group...what is this group?
  • 08:05PM John Hayakawa Torok Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions
  • 08:07PM Rafiq when was the Boycott announced?
  • 08:07PM Aisha Mansour That should be a problem
  • 08:09PM Aisha Mansour It was publicized in 3/23/22
  • I appreciate you being transparent about when you found out about it
  • 08:09PM Rafiq yeah EBDSA specifically was callout out as having a lot of zionists in leadership, specifically the group that TANC has large overlap with
  • 08:09PM Aisha Mansour Its understandable
  • 08:11PM Aisha Mansour Voting majority to disband
  • 08:12PM Patrik D'haeseleer How about EBDSA's Resolution to Reaffirm EBDSA's Commitment to the Liberation of Palestine?
  • https://www.eastbaydsa.org/general-membership-meeting-april-30-2022/
  • 08:12PM Aisha Mansour Would be nice to see that reflected in the votes
  • SF chapter voted unanimously to keep BDS WG
  • 08:15PM Silvia S Ill lower my hand because of time constraints
  • 08:16PM Patrik D'haeseleer https://www.eastbaydsa.org/events/2132/2022-03-20-palestine-and-bds-101/ "The East Bay chapter passed a resolution in support of DSA BDS &Palestine Solidarity Working Group's statement to expel Bowman"
  • 08:16PM Aisha Mansour Again, I am talking about the most recent vote that happened a few weeks ago
  • This is a boycott of DSA in entirety.
  • 08:18PM Aisha Mansour I do not know why I need to reiterate that
  • 08:19PM Rafiq how can you be in solidarity if you are still a member of a boycotted organization?
  • 08:20PM Daniel Tutt The BDS working group is also a group within DSA, and with some members on the National Political Committee, as far as I understand it-- there may have been other changes I haven't followed
  • 08:20PM Silver Zahn i don't know why we're questioning the details of the boycott that
  • aisha has clearly explained when it seems like the issue is what the crossover is with TANC and EBDSA --sarah
  • i think there should be accountability on clp for not brining this to omni event wg , which geraldo silivia and billy are apart of who is in clp
  • *silver
  • 08:21PM Aisha Mansour I don't think that's relevant to this conversation personally
  • 08:21PM Rafiq great questoin
  • 08:22PM Hamsa yes we can do that
  • 08:22PM Patrik D'haeseleer Does anyone have a link to the vote on BDS? Still don't really understand what is going on here, and would like to educate myself. Noneed to spend more time on this in delegates mtg though
  • 08:22PM Aisha Mansour Yes that would help
  • 08:23PM Muirén Ní Sídach I left EBDSA in 2019, and didn't realize that TANC had close ties to EBDSA.
  • 08:24PM Aisha Mansour I appreciate that. I hope its reflected here in the future <3
  • 08:24PM Silvia S I think there should be accountability for the entire events working group not just CLP on having EBDSA events
  • in response to Silver ^
  • 08:25PM Danielle (BOGSS) *Now 2
  • 08:25PM Patrik D'haeseleer https://omnicommons.org/wiki/BOGSS
  • 08:29PM Theresa Halula when and how does boggs meet?
  • 08:29PM Natalie G. yeah how can one join?
  • 08:29PM Rafiq there is a congress
  • 08:29PM Salma T Silver, unsure why CLP should be held accountable when they were the only group that cared enough to do their research and bring up theirconcerns to the Omni. EBDSA's voting and position on Palestine was also recently revealed and was not obvious before
  • 08:30PM Yar very agred. new congress asap!
  • 08:30PM Theresa Halula ther is a congress, but when and where?
  • 08:32PM Muirén Ní Sídach I would like to participate in BOGSS
  • 08:32PM Theresa Halula send boggs meeting information to theresa_halula@yahoo.com for ccl representation
  • 08:33PM Jake Watters It's been entirely closed off and just used as a sock puppet for CLP
  • 08:33PM Theresa Halula thank you silver
  • 08:34PM Gerald Smith Congress?
  • 08:34PM Theresa Halula is boggs only open to non white members?
  • 08:34PM Danielle (BOGSS) non-white and women
  • 08:34PM Jake Watters In a practical matter BOGSS has been open only to CLP members
  • 08:34PM Danielle (BOGSS) i believe a certain percentage must be bipoc
  • 08:34PM Patrik D'haeseleer non-white or non-men
  • 08:34PM Danielle (BOGSS) my apologies, you're correct patrik
  • 08:35PM Aisha Mansour I had no idea that this was something going on here
  • 08:35PM Silver Zahn i went to get the free round trip i got kicked out the first day landed isarel so i could go to palestine
  • 08:36PM Silver Zahn as a poor person its the only idea i had
  • 08:36PM Patrik D'haeseleer Are you really saying that perhaps CLP *should
  • use BOGSS to "go after"people?
  • 08:37PM Aisha Mansour You should absolutely not have done that Silver
  • 08:37PM Danielle (BOGSS) I think BOGSS needs to be more representative of the BIPOC and non-men in OMNI
  • 08:37PM Aisha Mansour Ill withhold my comments
  • 08:37PM Silver Zahn i was 19
  • 10 years ago
  • 08:37PM Rafiq it was 2016
  • 08:38PM Aisha Mansour Silver, I'm confused because you said CLP needs accountability because they didn't know about our boycott but when you went to Israel itsforgiven because you didn't know..
  • Im sorry Im just confused and trying to be real with you aboutsomething that was asked of me.
  • 08:39PM Aidan Hill Can someone say the acronyms please
  • 08:40PM Harold R BIPOC Oppressed Genders Safe Space (BOGSS)
  • 08:40PM Rafiq BIPOC and Oppressed Gender Safe Space Committee
  • 08:40PM Theresa Halula without any members in boggs from the other collectives how can it be a flood of white people?
  • 08:40PM Aidan Hill Thank you
  • 08:41PM Rafiq can we ammend this such that everyone is not white with min non men
  • 08:41PM Patrik D'haeseleer FYI - I'm the one who wrote the proposal. As far as I know, I have not harrased Rafiq
  • 08:41PM Harold R I will lower my hand
  • 08:41PM Danielle (BOGSS) On my end yes.
  • 08:41PM Silver Zahn Hi yes I fucked up by using birthright at 19 to get a free trip to travel to Palestine and open and down to be accountable and expect the same of clp now
  • 08:42PM Rafiq nobody from CLP has ever been to Israel
  • its all white people attacking BOGSS that should be in the record
  • 08:43PM Silver Zahn also this was never communicated till now
  • 08:43PM Muirén Ní Sídach I don't know enough to object to Patrik's proposal. At face value, it sounds reasonable. I'm a 66-year-old gender non-conforming, Black Trans Lesbian and interested in participating in BOGGS and helping to cultivate a more inclusive program.
  • 08:43PM Silver Zahn I am not white and dont appreciate Rafiq naming that
  • 08:43PM Aidan Hill Can someone restate Patrick's proposal again please?
  • 08:44PM Aisha Mansour Silver, you comparing accountability for going on birthright to accountability for enforcing our boycott late (because they didn't know) is incredibly disrespectful.
  • 08:44PM Danielle (BOGSS) I want to make sure OMNI's oppressed groups are represented. Let's move forward with an election ASAP
  • 08:45PM Aidan Hill I'd like to speak briefly if that's ok. Just cause it relates to me.
  • 08:45PM Rafiq so basically if the white dominated groups can pull out and then defang BOGSS
  • 08:45PM Silver Zahn your right i shouldnt of made that comparison and im sorry
  • 08:45PM Yar thank you for doing progressive stack!!!
  • 08:46PM Patrik D'haeseleer BOGSS committe voes by majority, hence the "no more than 2/5 from each collective"
  • 08:47PM Danielle (BOGSS) I would encourage you to join Aidan!!
  • 08:48PM Voulette Honestly y'all we had no idea that Zionism, birthright trips, people living in Israel, were such a widespread issue in Omni.... This really seems like a problem. There is no excuse for going on a birthright trip. That is LITERALLY directly supporting the genocide of our people.
  • 08:48PM Patrik D'haeseleer Not limiting POC from BOGSS committee!
  • 08:50PM Rafiq you didn't have a conflict with me
  • you sent a goon to harass our women organizers
  • and then spread rumors about us
  • we've never met
  • 08:50PM Silvia S Jake you were the main person shooting BOGSS down in the begninng
  • 08:50PM Patrik D'haeseleer BOGSS Committee is already required to have at least 4 BIPOC members -that does not change
  • 08:50PM Rafiq you also objected to BOGGS multiple time
  • you are lying
  • 08:51PM Aidan Hill For example, I didn't cause I didn't want to be tokenized. Not because of the group that authored it.
  • 08:53PM Aidan Hill Calling people out by name never ends in consensus...
  • 08:53PM Silvia S to be clear our reasons for the TANC block were not shifting it was that they are white dominated and then when the boycott came out we added that as another reason.
  • 08:53PM Muirén Ní Sídach Hello Aidan, WE used to follow each other before I deleted my X (formerly Twitter) account. I am also concerned with being used as a token Black Queer member.
  • 08:55PM Aidan Hill I'm trying to say my hand was raised from last time.
  • I don't have anything to say. SORRY
  • 08:55PM John Hayakawa Torok Gotcha.
  • 08:55PM Danielle (BOGSS) Great, thanks for clarifying Patrik
  • 08:56PM Harold R Aidan uses they/them pronouns
  • 08:56PM Patrik D'haeseleer I will double-check the exact lanuage. Here are the full BOGSS rules:
  • https://omnicommons.org/wiki/BOGSS
  • "The first priority of this committee is the representation of BIPOCindividuals. If the BOGSS Committee does not contain at least 4 non-white people, the white candidate with the lowest voting percentage shall be replaced with the non-white candidate with the next highest voting percentage. "
  • 08:58PM Rafiq jake has no respect for black women clearly
  • 08:58PM Aisha Mansour Woah
  • 08:58PM Salma T Wow...
  • 08:58PM Natalie G. i mean if this is pretty combative for convo, is pretty childish
  • 08:58PM Aidan Hill It is combative tho... I'm not in CLP
  • 08:58PM Aisha Mansour Im really glad we are here to see this.
  • I was not aware this was going on.
  • 09:00PM Salma T The amount of zionism and racism that's permeating from Omni is very concerning for me, and very disappointing.
  • 09:00PM Leen C Likewise.. ^
  • 09:00PM Aidan Hill I could do a mediation if need be.
  • 09:01PM Natalie G. yeah can we stop interputting people? thats not okay
  • 09:01PM Salma T How are there people like Jake even part of Omni?
  • 09:01PM Patrik D'haeseleer Just to point out that Jake has never said any of those words in private talk or emails
  • 09:02PM Theresa Halula be careful how you paint the general population when you have a single person in mind-
  • 09:04PM Rafiq neutral BIPOC observers are pointing out what a racist Jake is how long is OMNI going to protect him?
  • 09:04PM Muirén Ní Sídach Regardless of intention, this statement does seem to frame CLP as the leadership in revitalization of Omni Commons. "Our organization was invited to be a part of the Omni Commons in May of 2022. CLP has revitalized the work at the Omni, making efforts to engage the local community and host events in the space. We are seeking to revitalize and revolutionize the space as a base for building revolutionary power and programs in the East Bay."
  • https://www.communityliberationprograms.org/our-programs
  • 09:05PM Salma T As non-Omni member, to witness the "president" of Omni, voted in by delegates (?) actively attacking BIPOC and non-cis people is absolutely a reflection on Omni. Reflect on this please
  • 09:06PM Silver Zahn as a person who is here 4 days a week this delegate meeting does not represent omni. all the poeple of color or poor folks who do the work at omni dont have time for this
  • 09:06PM Natalie G. wait what
  • 09:08PM Aidan Hill I think voting is a bad idea.... Next topic...
  • 09:11PM Rafiq shouldn't the new BOGSS congress suggest changes? not some white guy?
  • 09:12PM Danielle (BOGSS) I don't get the emails :/
  • Can someone add me?
  • 09:12PM Rafiq that's a good idea
  • 09:12PM John Hayakawa Torok It is the consensus list ...
  • 09:13PM Paige P https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/consensus
  • 09:13PM Harold R We have 15 minutes~15 minutes
  • 09:13PM Theresa Halula spend the money on the roof!
  • 09:13PM Danielle (BOGSS) So should we send out an email this week to begin the process for the election?
  • 09:13PM Silvia S I motion to table to next topic, have BOGSS congress asap
  • 09:14PM Yar hellman grant has to be spent paying individuals
  • 09:14PM Silvia S they decide new bylaws
  • 09:14PM Jake Watters Salma the "president" of Omni holds absolutely zero power of any kind, it's purely a requirement by the state for us to have a name on our documents on file. We will be replacing my name with Paige soon I'm sure. As for me "attacking" people, I am not going to pretend that people are excused from being wrong, or acting in bad faith, because they're bipoc or non-cis
  • 09:14PM Silver Zahn what is people from boggs betrayed confidentiality aka Geraldo
  • 09:15PM Yar Suggested alternate wording: The BOGSS committee shall be considered inactive when it has less than 4 members, or more than 40% members from any one group -> this version will make it less likely for BOGSS to become inactive if someone drops out.
  • 09:15PM Silver Zahn to clarify: Geraldo from boggs and i spoke (about white people) and i was told it was in confidence which was then broken
  • 09:15PM Yar salma, i hear you, i proposed to remove jake a few days ago and i hope it can happen by next meeting
  • 09:15PM Natalie G. i dont get emails but inthink i just signed up - but i would love to help with events or marketing or whatever
  • 09:16PM Rafiq i think we agreed earlier that it needs more discussion
  • 09:17PM Aidan Hill Literally the meeting should end or talk about nonheavy issues... but yall are the delegates. No one who is triggered can process decisions right now...
  • 09:18PM Danielle (BOGSS) I feel you Aidan
  • 09:18PM Natalie G. ya
  • 09:19PM Rafiq sounds like there are requested amendments that need to be made?
  • 09:20PM Marc Juul The legal officer positions of Omni are not ceremonial. They are legally required. Omni have decided to give those positions as little power as possible but they are still legally required for Omni to operate. I'm not sure what the legal deadline is to elect a new officer when one steps down.
  • 09:23PM Rafiq do we not have quorum if CLP abstains?
  • 09:25PM Jake Watters Here is my email supporting and endorsing BOGSS in May 2023 https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/message/XXGTZHPPLA2W4XD3RM3NPYAU23R7Z5OE/
  • 09:27PM Patrik D'haeseleer Gerald - we just took a vote
  • 09:28PM Silver Zahn thats a kind idea Daniella
  • 09:29PM Theresa Halula there won't be a "new" boggs , just new delegates to boggs...
  • 09:31PM Patrik D'haeseleer TANC is a ~50% BIPOC organization, as I understand, although leadership seems to lean more white
  • 09:31PM Danielle (BOGSS) Let's try to have an election next week
  • 09:32PM Rafiq my hand is up to save us time on a temporary compromise on TANC
  • 09:32PM joe So with no vote BOGGS has a n active ability to block?
  • 09:32PM Andrew R Gross Jake, I really think to should step out sand cool off. I can represent Sudo room.
  • 09:33PM Rafiq yes
  • 09:33PM Andrew R Gross Yes
  • 09:33PM Natalie G. yes
  • 09:34PM Andrew R Gross Rafiq, what's your compromise?
  • 09:34PM Hamsa nvm i put my hand down
  • 09:35PM Andrew R Gross That's an incredible show of good faith.Thank you!
  • 09:35PM Jake Watters TANC is not interested in becoming a tenant
  • 09:36PM Andrew R Gross Silva? Would you lift the block?
  • 09:36PM Muirén Ní Sídach Thank you, Rafiq.
  • 09:36PM Rafiq there was a compromise put on the table, is anyone else interested in that? we need to mend conflict here
  • 09:37PM David Keenan Agree with yar that good faith is voting yay or nay on TANC as a member collective, after many months
  • 09:37PM Andrew R Gross I thought tenancy was membership when I said that
  • 09:37PM David Keenan Right, Tenancy is not collective membership
  • 09:39PM Andrew R Gross Silva, can you lift the block? I really don't think it's serving Omni.
  • 09:40PM David Keenan What is the harm is in just holding the vote of TANC as a member? It's been many months. +1 to what yar is saying, my 2c
  • 09:41PM Andrew R Gross Agree with David
  • 09:43PM Marc Juul i will re-joinapparently you can't hear me
  • 09:43PM David Keenan I can hear you
  • 09:43PM Andrew R Gross I heard you
  • 09:44PM Rafiq that was a straw poll right? not an official vote?
  • 09:44PM John Hayakawa Torok yes
  • 09:44PM Andrew R Gross Jake whatever you are going to say is not going to help your own cause or TANC.
  • 09:46PM Danielle (BOGSS) It's getting late y'all. Considering what PYM said earlier, I think it's work having more discussion about this. I definitely think they should join as a tenant, then have the discussions about them being a member collective considering what PYM said.
  • 09:48PM Andrew R Gross Can we hold a consensus check on using the consensus minus 1 option?
  • 09:48PM Paige P could it be a condition that tanc approval requires TANC delegate to not be a DSA member? to observe Palestinian boycott
  • 09:49PM Rafiq we stated we are open to more discussion around a compromise and offered a tenant position in meantime
  • 09:50PM Andrew R Gross Paige's proposal sounds very reasonable.
  • 09:51PM Aisha Mansour Im sorry this feels like pressuring...
  • 09:51PM Andrew R Gross What are the conditions offered?
  • 09:51PM Rafiq new information came to light today
  • 09:52PM Jake Watters It's obvious why
  • 09:52PM Aisha Mansour They just offered an alternative with a tenant position
  • 09:52PM Rafiq meeting with TANC/PYM. No DSA members in TANC. More BIPOC leadership at Omni first
  • all things that would sway us
  • potentially
  • 09:52PM Andrew R Gross Ok, can the rest of the delegates just accept these conditions then?
  • 09:53PM Jake Watters Sudoroom is in favor of consensus minus one
  • 09:54PM Salma T Wow
  • 09:55PM David Keenan CLP, thank you for pointing out any factual errors in what I shared, and please share these over email so that we can correct the record
  • 09:55PM Rafiq i don't agree with using consensus minus to override the only BIPOC org at OMni
  • 09:56PM Jake Watters PYM said their boycott is not against TANC
  • bogss doesn't get ability to block this right now
  • 09:58PM Andrew R Gross @Danielle, I wanna send you my support.
  • 09:58PM Rafiq oh no! yar i hope you feel better soon
  • 09:59PM Patrik D'haeseleer " Voting by consensus (as opposed to majority) weakens the ability of any group/organ to effectively do its job."
  • 09:59PM Jake Watters In the BOGSS charter, you wrote: "Consensus allows a minority to completely obstruct the majority. A single infiltrator or bad faith actor can completely derail the intention of the committee. Voting by consensus (as opposed to majority) weakens the ability of any group/organ to effectively do its job."
  • bogss is not in session right now for many reasons listed in the notes
  • 09:59PM Aisha Mansour I just want to be honest and say that this meeting has been incredibly eye opening to witness. We as PYM need to discuss further involvement with Omni in general
  • and this has nothing to do with TANC. It's been the way that concernsof zionism and white supremacy has been discussed.
  • Thank you for having us.
  • 10:00PM David Keenan Everyone, This is a rare circumstance, no question it makes sense to me that this is nerve-wracking. But it's been too long no matter what the reasons are at some point you have to vote and move on, one way or the other my 2c
  • 10:00PM Aisha Mansour I have never seen a meeting handled like this in my life.
  • 10:00PM Jake Watters Aisha we are unified in support of BDS and Palestinian liberation
  • 10:01PM Danielle (BOGSS) I would think blocking makes sense
  • 10:01PM Jake Watters Aisha I would blame that on CLP whose politics you should investigate
  • 10:02PM Aisha Mansour Please do not gas light me.
  • 10:02PM Danielle (BOGSS) Y'all my microphone isn't working
  • 10:02PM Aisha Mansour I know the responses I received to issues I raised around zionism.
  • 10:02PM Silver Zahn (Tia) I was told these meetings were boring......wild
  • 10:02PM Danielle (BOGSS) Can someone see my final vote above?
  • 10:03PM Jake Watters If you're speaking about Silver's acts when they were 19 I think that's unfair. Learning about this issue is not easy in this country
  • 10:03PM Salma T Jake, actions speak, not performative talking points
  • 10:03PM Andrew R Gross At Danielle, I see your vote.
  • 10:03PM Salma T Including yours in this meeting
  • 10:04PM Danielle (BOGSS) My microphone isn't working, thank you for seeing that Anrew
  • 10:04PM Rafiq Danielle stated they blocked above
  • 10:04PM Andrew R Gross Danielle, has your position changed or should I repeat your [block]?
  • Based on the commitments offered?
  • 10:05PM Jake Watters Salma I would appreciate any clarification you can give me on that, if it's about my conflict with rafiq or something else
  • 10:05PM Danielle (BOGSS) You can repeat it andrew. I didn't verbally say it, but my micorphone didn't work
  • 10:05PM Andrew R Gross Consider block or consider not block?
  • 10:06PM Aisha Mansour Jake, I am speaking as Aisha and not PYM right now. I never ever want to have a conversation with you in my life. And I think Sudoroom should really reflect on how this person reflects your organization.
  • 10:06PM Jake Watters Andrew BOGSS is not in session right now
  • 10:07PM Jake Watters Because I speak out about things? That's exactly how zionists react to me.
  • 10:07PM Danielle (BOGSS) That is fine if y'all don't want to consider my vote, as stated we will have an election asap.
  • 10:08PM Rafiq we already tabled the BOGSS discussion until after the next congress?
  • 10:09PM Salma T Jake, you're calling Aisha a zionist????????
  • 10:09PM Rafiq the president of Omni yall^
  • Danielle was clear they blocked
  • don't silence black voices
  • 10:10PM Salma T Omni, what the hell is happening in your space?!
  • 10:10PM Leen C This feels weird that you are just now disqualifying BOGSS vote.
  • 10:12PM Jake Watters Salma and Aisha I'm sorry for any misunderstanding
  • 10:12PM Rafiq we have offered so many compromisesthis is frankly ridiculous
  • 10:13PM Aisha Mansour Yeah it doesn't smell too good the racism spectrumon the racism spectrum
  • 10:13PM Jake Watters No I'm saying that I feel strongly about things and I have trouble when people go after my tone, which is what happens when I speak out against zionism
  • 10:13PM Rafiq exactly, we already recognized BOGSS as a legit vote throughout the meeting so many people are properly pointing out the racism in this situation
  • 10:14PM Aisha Mansour Again, we will be reconsidering our relationship to this space after this meeting.
  • 10:14PM Rafiq are yall prepared to stand by this publicly?
  • 10:14PM Patrik D'haeseleer Which is exactly why I wanted to have the vote on BOGSS rules first.
  • 10:15PM Jake Watters In the BOGSS charter, you wrote: "Consensus allows a minority to completely obstruct the majority. A single infiltrator or bad faith actor can completely derail the intention of the committee. Voting by consensus (as opposed to majority) weakens the ability of any group/organ to effectively do its job."
  • 10:15PM Rafiq TANC are yall comfortable being brought into this space this way? are yall prepared to be publicly linked to this?
  • 10:15PM Danielle Can we get the new BOGSS group in ASAP, then have them vote for this?
  • 10:15PM Rafiq yes^
  • 10:15PM Andrew R Gross I think we should conclude the meeting. Or sounds like the moment for consensus failed.
  • 10:15PM Jake Watters Nobody wants to join your little maoist struggle session
  • 10:16PM Andrew R Gross Jake please go you're killing us.Agreed
  • 10:16PM Rafiq we want to compromise and are happy to talk offline with Andrew this just doesn't feel right
  • it appears we are pushing PYM away from our space just by the way we are handling this
  • 10:17PM Jake Watters Here's me forcing the BOGSS charter down peoples throats for you https://sudoroom.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org/message/XXGTZHPPLA2W4XD3RM3NPYAU23R7Z5OE/
  • 10:19PM Andrew R Gross Goodnight folks
  • 10:20PM Aisha Mansour Thank you Yar, goodnight.
  • 10:20PM David Keenan Thanks hugely to Yar and everyone for your efforts or time. I want to say I was only able to attend at the end after my kiddo went to sleep.
  • Let's all try to heal moving forward

End of Meeting

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