Event:2022/09/15 Delegates

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Omni Delegates' Meeting - September 15, 2022 7pm-9pm

Meeting Roles

  • Facilitator/s: cere
  • Stacktaker:
  • Timekeeper:
  • Notetaker/s:
  • Next meeting's facilitator(s):

Delegates

  • inactive groups: CSC, GWS, LL
  • ANV: active, silver
  • CCL: active, Patrik
  • CLP: active, billy
  • FNB: active, helen
  • MOP: active, jacqi
  • SM: inactive, camber
  • SR: inactive, jake
  • Quorum (2/3 of active groups): need 4
  • yar she/her
  • peter sudoroom
  • cere, just trying to see how i can help. not sure what i have to offer.
  • patrik he/him ccl
  • geraldo he/they clp, events wg
  • billy they/them clp
  • helen she/her fnb
  • imma she/they. treasurer, bank signer, working on press releases and messaging
  • joe he/him fnb. peoples park still battling UC. very much in favor of cleanliness accountability committee. will help getting entrance hall paint to hazardous waste depot.
  • jacqi she/her mop. working on liquor license + fire inspection. need to leave early. yes on cleanliness accountability! city says we need a CUP
    • yar: we already have a CUP! that's a trap!
  • jake sudo, working on door access
    • imma: jake has been hosting bike light party!
  • silver they/them anv. helping with bookkeeping, events treasurer, liaising with collectives. applying for 20k grant due 9/22.
  • camber sudomesh

Agenda

intros

BRIEF INTROS MAY INCLUDE: name, pronouns, groups you're in, land you're on, if you're a delegate, unmet access needs, meeting roles you'd like to help with, discussion topics or proposals to add to agenda, announcements/updates/report-backs from your groups, safe space issues or updates

board

confirmed:

  • ANV - Rachel Ruiz
  • CCL - Patrik D'haeseleer
  • CLP - does not want any named board member
  • FNB - Helen Finkelstein
  • LL - John Torok
  • MOP - Michael Sierra

still in question:

  • CSC - Arnoldo (pending that board's consent)
  • GWS - Rachel but need confirmation from her
  • SM - Marc Juul says Sudo Mesh still very much alive, but core members have spent much of the summer traveling. Will check with members about delegate. Note: correct contact email is info@sudomesh.org , *not* mesh@sudoroom.org. Possibly Camber - will talk to folks
  • SR - ??
  • BOGSS - ??


  • imma: i'd like to know who's best to contact in these groups also
    • yar can help
  • billy: sounds like we're talking about a mass email to get folks' attention. "this is what's happening, this is what needs doing". the cleanliness proposal will also be something to announce.
  • we'll keep trying to fill these gaps

Current comms needs: 1) official paperwork need a board member per each collective^ 2) delegates - need names for active ones and process for collectives' comms 3) Cleaning Accountability - need collectives' cooperation

lawyer

  • Yar's email yesterday: Jesse Palmer is Omni's lawyer. A bunch of people have been wanting to ask him questions lately, but it's best to try and fit them all into one call since his time is so limited and expensive. So let's compile all our questions here (and at tomorrow's delegate meeting) and

hopefully have a call in the next week?

    • events contracts: how do we force people to send receipts without undermining the "event presenter" language
    • events: how to navigate asking for w9s and 1099s
    • developing a game plan for december, what happens if mulberry forecloses
    • asking mulberry for more favors - either for more time, to be a guarantor, or something else?
    • Jacqi wants info on liquor license process
    • If anybody else would like to add to this list, or join the call, let us know!

discussion

  • who wants to be on this call? yar, jacqi, patrik

fire inspection

  • Probably coming up in next month or so
  • Possible use of saferDIY (Sarah/David) to help us with fire inspection - should we approach - Cere will ask: would they be willing to put aside past debts to them for now, and allow us to pay them to prep for this upcoming fire inspection (expect to take an hr or two)

cleanliness

  • cleanliness accountability proposal from last meeting

https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/GcTDiTZqA3ao5+6hbaAuobdc/

  • billy: in short we are gonna fine omni member groups who keep spaces messy. define exactly when shared spaces are being used, and not used, by member groups. stop spaces from being ... fucking disgusting, literally a repellent of human beings and human survival. hopefully a monetary fine will be a deterrant. our respect for each other hasn't been enough to maintain that standard. dire time when we need all hands, and the first thing people see is rotting food and rat shit? need to stop that. proposed 2 weeks ago on consensus list. ready to vote?
  • cere: this document defines space and what cleanliness means?
    • billy: the document defines a committee that's empowered to do that, to hand out fines, and has a budget.
  • helen: fnb thought this was a really good proposal
  • patrik: rather than charging a fixed amount, maybe charge for cleanup service might scale much better. some messes are much bigger than others. if we can call a cleanup service, at least it'll happen.
  • silver: want to see each member collective participating, stewarding part of the common space. very few individuals continuously doing it.
    • billy: so you want the committee to enact some kind of chore system for member collectives that requires them to do stuff like cleaning? sounds pretty reasonable
  • need to appoint a committee before we can start proposing stuff like that
  • cere: do we have a pool of funds for you to pay a cleaner?
    • Yar: yes, we have some money to pay for cleaners
  • billy: a lot of stuff are cleaning for free already. if we start paying them, we'll get great results. thank them for tons of unseen labor that's been essential for so long. hiring clenaers who don't know the space, if we don't alreayd have it at a set state, seems challenging. we'd need to supervise them intensely. it's not a normal space with straightforward goals. "what do i do with these piles of crates? rat shit?"
    • yar: open the airlock, send it all into space
  • patrik: the fines increase pretty quickly, $15/day
    • billy: we'll start slow. form committee, give grace periods. need time to define the spaces, get people on it. you'll all have warning.
  • silver: the $50 fine is for collectives or individuals?
    • billy: there's a lot of people in collectives who use the space. if they don't accept these consequences we'd have to restrict their access perhaps. also some edge cases like members of FNB who are in the space all the time. in those cases i'd defer to hold the org accountable cuz i thin kthat's more powerful for groups to hold their own people accountable.
  • jake: i'm in favor personally. just seeing it now. it's good, we should formalize the invisible labor of keeping the space clean. but creating a structure with parking tickets, policing people for whatever transgressions they've done inadvertently or carelessly to create this extra labor, i think it's a step beyond and we're not ready for that. so rather than create a bunch of cops with authority to issue tickets, we should just fund the cleaning effort we're already doing and formalize that, then create a communication channel for the people doing that labor to all the delegates of member collectives and tenants using the building, so whenever there's a mess that's found and has to be cleaned up, there can be direct communication to whoever's responsible for creating that mess, or have info on how it was created. and on a case by case basis, funds can be directed as appropriate. rather than just deputizing cleaning people to be able to just issue a $50 fine per day or something like that. doesn't take into accounta any of the realities that i think go into running the building
  • yar: we should offer folks the cleaning services as an alternative to fines?
  • yar: jake, fines are a last resort, the ocmmittee will try those things first
    • jake: who gets the first fine? ... the delegate meeting should do this, not a separate committee. we should fund the cleaning labor, create a communications channel [too much for yar to type]
  • patrik: for people who aren't affiliated with orgs ... i think if someone's in omni they should be the responsibility of one of the collectives. i like the structure of orgs holding their members responsible. but what about messes we don't know who left them? who would we currently assign fines to? there's a couple groups very active and always have a hard time cleaning up at the end. it's not too hard to figure it out. i'd like the idea much better of actually doing a cleanup and apportioning what the cost of that cleanup was. if you look for rat shit, you're gonna find it everywhere at omni. i don't want ccl to be on the hook for $50/day because there's some rat shit in the corner. you're gonna find it somewhere. we should pay for rodent abatement, and if need be apportion that to different collectives.
  • jake: i plugged 2 giant rat holes on the border hole between sudo + ccl, how much do i get paid for that? giant rat holes. i vacuumed up literally 10lb of rat shit in that area, permanently closed those areas off with metal like 1.5 weeks ago.
  • patrik: the $50/day will create resentment and be hard to enforce. i'd much rather say to a collective, "you need to clean this up, if you don't by [date] we're gonna pay people and charge you"
    • helen: i like that. would billy accept that amendment? more workable than a flat fee.
  • billy: what about in a situation that needs to be cleaned that day? i think adding more labor of having to do an investigation case by case ...
    • helen: if it has to be cleaned that day then you have to pay more, ok
    • billy: reality is that before this meeting, it's been the same few of us representing the only active member collectives. at last meeting, nobody was that afraid of the fines, maybe the number or amount but agreed this is the direction we should be moving in. also tenants like VOL - a very important force that's struggling to feel welcome in the space because of cultural norms that invisibilize [...] but really mean anybody can just do whatever they want to others and "who's gonna stop me?" interesting to me that people involved in this labor agree, but people who aren't involved are creating more labor without staffing the committees. i don't want to make this super complicated. we need a deterrent, a group of people who can enforce that deterrent and keep that going. it's important for that process to be easy because everybody who's gonna be on it is already on all the other ocmmittees too. it's a lot of work that's challenging. i don't think it needs to be made harder out of some ideological purity that i don't see in reality in the space. i see what it's been organized around for 8 years and i've seen the result. this is what we need to survive. these issues are what makes people unable to be part of omni and that's why we're short on people. i hope this will never have to be enacted because people will clean up after themselves. if they do, pay us money. i like the idea of offering CSC/GWP that option. but for folks who aren't gonna do that, we're gonna have to have some kind of more real reality. talking it out over a series of weeks at meetings that happen twice a month that most people don't show up to, that's not enough. we need all hands on decks. ship is sinking. i wanna bail the water out. let's make that happen.
  • patrik: if you think administering a daily increasing penalty is gonna be easier than hiring a cleaning team and charging the cost, i think you're gonna be frustrated. we're gonna end up with people not cleaning up messes, and who can't pay the penalty. that's gonna be harder to manage than "we did the cleanup, here's the bill, we can negotiate whether to add that to your rent or not"
  • jacqi: i think we need to respect the culture we're trying to build in this space while still bringing accountability. appreciate patrik's suggestion. idk if it'll be practical to try to figure out who made a mess and who do we impose the fee on? that might take longer. might require immediate cleanup. so an accountability structure involves [...] don't want to charge people money they can't afford, but do want cleaners to be compensated.
  • yar: i feel like we're micromanaging this committee. if we empower them to form and do things we should trust them to use fees wisely and not as a first resort. to be clear, if delegates don't like the results in 2 or 4 weeks, we can undo it. this is a highly reversible decision.
  • patrik: an easy solution is to add to "$50/day fine" and asy "alternatively the committee can decide to give the org a deadline or a cleaning crew will be hired and costs charged". that gives the committee more flexibility and will wind up being easier as well.
    • billy: so say "the committee is empowered to charge up to this amount" rather than require it
  • billy: people are afraid of approaching others sometimes. puts the labor on folks to say "this is what your'e doing to me, this is what's affecting me". this is what i'm hearing from people at omni now. a system is important, to be able to say, "this is omni's rules, this is omni structure, i'm not singling you out, this is nothing personal between us, it's just what our culture and rules are". having that above individuals is important. without that, our interpersonal dynamics are challenging enough. having to plead folks to clean up yet again after years, might [...]
    • jake: specific examples of situations where there was a failure of communication, of the existing process that would necessitate this new structure? i think the first thing we should do besides formalize and fund our cleaning operations (so it's not volunteers feeling burned out & exploited) is to [...] so accountability for messes can be discussed, and then after that, if necessary, deal with the compensation issue
  • yar: jake are you REALLY telling me right now to "create a communications channel"? i've been doing that for years and years and i'm burned out
    • jake: [quits meeting]
  • billy: we've been talking about this at THESE meetings for months. specific messes.
  • patrik: should we take another 2 weeks because we amended the proposal?
  • jacqi: situation is frustrating. the tone that's being used, the words, the cussing, speaking down about people who are part of omni - it's frustrating that people aren't doing the same amount of labor. how we address them, i believe, makes us who we are as a group. addressing them in a way that makes people feel belittled or can't have a say, i don't think is going to be helpful. i totally understand we're not gonna put things on hold for people who aren't showing up or doing work. but we shouldn't talk down about the way people interact or run their groups. it's ok to follow our rules about inactive collectives, but this conversation is making me uncomfortable. like i said, i think this should move forward, love patrik's amendment. appreciate billy for the initiative. but i think we might lose people because of the way things are spoken about in these meetings. i love you all, i hope we can ground and be kind ot each other.
  • jake: as a member of sudoroom, i'd want our delegate to block the proposal
    • yar: jake, you understand sudoroom is inactive?
  • explanation of what inactive means. last time sudoroom delegate showed up was jake on july 7th
  • helen: jake is asking for better communication before this process of trying to have accountability. i don't see why we need to wait for the accountability. the two channels are: having the committee, setting up the committee, giving the committee its powers, AND setting up the communications about what is to be done, which jake wants to see happen. there's no need to wait for 1 before the other.
    • patrik: i agree with helen. i appreciate the frustration billy feels about how slow these decisions take to get passed, but that's just the system that we have, i'd have to ask to exercise some patience. last meeting we all agreed we should have a mechanism like this. i don't think anybody's opposed to setting up a committee to start enforcing some of these things and start keeping an eye on it. 1 weeks from now we can actually have a vote. personally even tho sudoroom isn't an active delegate at the moment i'd feel uncomfortable voting over jake's objections. i'd prefer to vote on the specific language in 3 weeks, but meanwhile set up the committee and figure out who wants to be on it.
  • yar: if we approve the proposal but delay the fine enforcement until after our october 6 meeting, and require another affirmative consensus decision on october 6 to give them that fine enforcement power?
    • jake is ok with that
    • CONSENSUS: YES (ccl/patrik silver/anv jake/sr helen/fnb billy/clp jacqi/mop) abstain (camber/sm), block (none), PASSES!
  • patrik: have fnb and anv had this discussion in their orgs? the 2 groups that deal with food the most
    • helen: yes we have
    • Silver: will talk with them tomorrow, but ready to vote in favor
  • willing to be on committeee: Patrik, Silver, Helen

basement messes

  • silver: media lab is getting out of hand. how do we maintain that before it gets worse?
    • at a previous meeting we talked about contacting CC about sewing area
    • yar tried to talk to her about setting boundaries for the sewing area - pretty minimal ask - and she responded nonlinearly, not much accountability
    • people think it's cc's private studio and don't realize it's common space
    • cc needs to know we have to keep stuff clean. same response, a ramble
  • peter: cc is part of an effort to raise awareness of sudoroom and omni as part of our fundraising efforts. providing fabric classes, brings people on tuesday nights, raises visibility, serves a valuable role in that way. this is the first i'm hearing about the issues of collecting clutter.
  • yar's asks:
   1. clear boundary for media lab, and a deadline to move everything inside
   2. Ratproof all cloth storage (we can buy some bins and racks if needed)
   3. Share equipment and space better. it's not just for one person. Equipment and tables should be clear for the next person after use.
   4. Transparency about money changing hands
  • silver: need a formal proposal of what media lab can be. it can be so much more. legitimize and formalize it. ask cc to be part of that proposal.
  • jake has been holding onto cash donations from media lab, bitcoin and other things but hasn't deposited it yet. the ledger so far contains: $20 $20 $5 $5 $5820 200 100 10 35 25 5

basement storage

End of Meeting

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